I thought we could start a discussion on detentions and punishments and search out peoples memeories of them.

I recall that the first classroom on the ground floor was nominated as the detention room and where you had to go if you were deemed to have carried out some misdemeanour.  Am I right in thinking that you had to sit there and write out 100 lines of 'I must not be disobedient' or something like that. I can recall being in there … but for the life of me I cannot remember what it was I was doing.

However my biggest punishment came when Nicky Spinks and I decided to 'bunk' school one day to go and meet a couple of blokes over in Burnt Oak. One was Nicky's current boyfirend and I was the 'blind date' for the other. The bloke I ended up with was not exactly one of life's wholesome individuals and I recall being totally shocked when he started injecting himself with some substance. Fortunately I had enough sense to get the hell out of it and go home. I told my mum on her return from work that I had not been well and stayed at home. OK so far until it turned out I had been due that day at the school clinic for a checkup which I had forgotten about and when I had not turned up they went round my house and of course I was not there.....

To cut a long story short Nicky and I were found out and got into deep bother with Clara.  We were punished by having to spend our lunchtimes for a whole term writing out passages from the Bible.  My husband is always amazed by my ability to answer biblical questions on gameshows and I am sure that this punishment prepared me well for this!

was it Nicky Spinks that got stabbed in the arm at school, if not who was it??? (this was by a boyfriend, not by someone at school)

I got a detention on the second day I was at school.  The heinous crime was flicking water in Nick Symmons' face!!!!  Lippett the art teacher, had me banged to rights and I spent an interesting hour in said room on the ground floor, writing out the school rules.  There were an interesting collection of people there that day including one or more of the Gibb brothers who were actually quite impressed that I had got a detention so quickly.  You must remember that I was 11 years old, still in short trousers and about two foot six tall (short?).

This was not to be the last visit to the detention room and by the time I left school, I could write out the school rules without looking at the crib sheet.  In fact I could do them forwards, backwards, in French, blindfold etc etc.

Whatever happened to the Gibb bros?  They used to scare the shite out of me.  I remember one of them using a cut throat razor to shave one of my tennis balls.  I suppose it could have been worse!

I remember one particular detention when Miss Kendle was in charge and I was the only kid there. Just me and her alone in the school. I remember there was some tidying up to do in the Geography cupboard, and she asked me to help. As I passed her the books I accidentally brushed her breast with my hand. She smiled. And then some ink got accidentally spilled down her front. She had to take her blouse and bra off quickly, although she wasn't embarrassed about this because I was the only one there. And then, as I was still on detention, and it was partly my fault, she said I had to wash her boobs as a punishment.

In the toilets I soaped my hands and started to clean her bosom. But water kept getting on her skirt, so she suggested that perhaps she she should take it off. I said that maybe I ought to take my clothes off too, in case they got wet ......

Actually, I just made all that up.

Karl, if you must fantasise in open country then at least spell your fantasy's name correctly.

Regards

Sorry Terry. Now you know why I did so poorly at school. If I wasn't otherwise engaged chasing Sue Jones, Pennie Lauezzari, Nicky Spinks and Pat Bradley, I was too busy day-dreaming about geography teachers to learn how to speel.

Lee,

I cannot remember Nicky getting stabbed so I'm sure it was someone else but I cannot remember.  Memories fade when you get older .......and things that seem vivid may never have happened. As you can see with Karl, just mention the name Miss Kendall and he goes into the early stages (or late) of dementia giving him a rapturous hallucination!

Terry,

was this the Gibb brothers from Burnt Oak who used to run a market stall on a saturday in Watling Market?

I remember that Alan Gibbs or Gibbo as he was called was in the 5th form when we were in the first year. I know he had a brother called Gary who went to Camrose. And yes they were all fairly hard cases.  My claim to fame is that I actually went out with Gary for a couple of dates!

There was also a younger brother called Paul who went to Camrose. He used to work on the fruit and Veg stall on the corner of the road where the Market was.  Alan Gibbs other nick name was Hatchet, as he buried one in someones head once, used to go round with the Couchmans and the Claires from Borhamwood.

I can still remember someone coming to school with a bandage around their upper arm and telling everyone they had been stabbed??  Not my year your year.

Lee,

I will ask Nicky Spinks to see if she can recall who the stabbed person was.

I think it must have been around 1970 that there was the famous Prefect whose surname was Gardner (or was it Garner). He became a legend in his own lifetime for the number of Prefaces handed out. I remember that before leaving he was awarded a 'Golden Preface' by Becker. It became something of a joke and really subsequent Prefects seemed less likely to hand them out thereafter.

Wasnt he "Bill" ?  Actually he was a real w*nker (allegedly).  If I ever got given a preface by a prefect I would just write two pages of utter drivel as it was quicker than copying.  I never got caught out as they never read them but took great delight in tearing them up in front of you.  I suppose this was last days of fagging (don't you just love the middle classes!)

I put a challenge up elswhere in the MESSAGES section but it should have gone in here I suppose...

My school report lists 13 detentions in one term--can anybody beat that?

Unfortunately, Woosley did not list the number of canings on our report cards but I had quite a few over the years.  We used to line-up outside his study after assembly and--if you were not first in line--would listen to the "swish" and then "thwack" to figure out if he was dishing-out 3, 4 or rarely 6 swipes for the offence. Sometimes you could get caught-out: your buddies might get 4 each and so you would go in, bend over and brace yourself for 4 of the best only to find a 5th and 6th landing on your rump [this would happen if it had been decided you were the ring-leader or somehow more culpable of the crime than the rest of the crew!].

Frankly the cane, though it smarted at the time, was not the worst form of corporal punishment. That sod Brett once whacked me with the wooden board compasses used for drawing circles on the blackboard with a piece of chalk--that hurt... But the worst was getting one swipe of McGillivray's size 13 or 14 plimpsoll. I have never experienced pain of this nature since... For those who don't remember "Mr Mac" he played No.8 for Wasps ...

Andrew, 

Whilst at the 8th June reunion I overheard someone say how pleased they were that Becker took over as headmaster because he didn't believe in corporal punishment. I remember that being music to my ears because I was caned on several occasions, I can't remember all and I'm not going to reminisce because I may incriminate myself.  Earlier entries mention Lippett, the art teacher, and I was caned for spitting from the top of the stairs in the art block - Lippett unfortunately walked underneath us at the wrong moment - but although I was present, it wasn't me that committed the deed. Sounds like a jailbird doesn't it - it wasn't me guv, honest.  Also, Bill Gardner is mentioned by Terry - if I'm right, Bill was at the reunion as well - pity you couldn't have put him straight Terry !!.

But you're right - the cane was nothing compared to the gym shoe adminstered by Andy Williams - I dread to thing the marks a Nike would leave today !!.

I guess I had a couple of 'near misses' being in the wrong place at the wrong time at various points in my school career.  However the mention of Andy Williams and the use of plimsols reminds me that I was often deeply unpopular in my year as I had the largest feet (now a mere size 12) and my plimsols therefore were the longest, with the greatest amount of flexibility or 'slipperability'.  They were therefore regularly 'borrowed' by AW to deliver punishment to my classmates.

I was guilty of most of the crtimes for which I was punished at Downer--no jailbird excuses really--but [ironically] the two worst beatings I got [the board compass from Brett and the size 14 plimpsoll from MacGillivray] were administered for crimes for which I was completely innocent... Brett as a sod but MacGillivray was a really great PE teacher but I think somebody should have pointed-out to him that a No.8 forward of almost international standard should not necessarily put ALL his energy into the swing when walloping a 12-year old [even a badly behaved little beast like me...]. I'm Class of 55-62 so obviously before your time.  I have heard no good things about this Williams character--sounds like a real sadist.  Our generation of PE teachers [MacGillivray, Peter Davies, Doublas--Nobby-Clarke and Geoff Cornes] were all excellent. 

We had a lot of good teachers.  Lippet was one of them although he was quite a disciplinarian--but God Almighty: if you spit on someone from the top of the art block you should expect retribution unless you out rank or outweigh them.

The physics teachers were all bad--not mean, just bad teachers.  Brett, Biggar, Locke and J.A. Davies, Froggy Jones and Partridge were real sods. I'd say that all the rest of the teachers were in the good-excellent range.  Not a bad record for the school and I wished I had appreciated them more at the time.

I've taught at university level which is easy as all you have to do is get on with the course and not worry about being in loco parentis and if the students want to mess around and fail, that is their problem.

But back in '96/97 I filled-in for somebody in two Canadian A-Level equivalent and Internat. Baccalaurate courses in a rather undisciplined private school. I thought it would be a doddle but it was sheer hell. You have to do this to realise how a couple of badly behaved kids can really interfere with the whole educational process.  I was very strict and quite the disciplinarian but conscious all the time that Allan Tayler, Alan Stuart and a few other Downer teachers who had cut me more slack than I deserved were up there in Heaven nominating me for the first Nobel Prize for Hypocricy!!!

However, my 13 Detentions/Term still goes unchallenged....

Andy Forester

Andy et al, 

I can only come up with seven detentions as the most that I received in any one half-year.  However, in the same period I can add 27 half days absent.  This was the first half of my second year.  In the second half, I only received five detentions and was absent just 12 half-days.  However, and very clearly, something was not right.

Without exception, these detentions were handed-out by my nemesis of the time, my form/French teacher, A. Justin Portillo.  As I was reminded during the reunion, I even gained a detention during a detention where he was the invigilator.  He was also pretty adept at rendering a clip on the ear.  Apparently, my "sensible moments" were "too infrequent".

Mark Stiles

How about the most unusual reason for a detention?

I got one from Alan Taylor for "silent insubordination"! 

Regards,

Duncan.

From Clara - for bringing the good name of the school into disrepute. My crime?

Walking home from school in uniform,holding hands with my boyfriend,a sixth former.  I was in the fourth year at the time.

I believe that Keith Deacon (1951-1958) set the record when he got 7 detentions in one lesson. At that time detentionswere held on a Wednesday night. Keith got this chnaged asthere were not enough wednesdays in a term to cover his numberof detentions.Brian Tysoe (1951-1958 + 1959)

I remember the name--also yours--but you were both 3 years ahead of us munchkins.  Wow! seven in one lesson--it must have been Brett or JA Davies, they were the only sods who'd pull a stunt like that...  Looks like my 13/term is strictly third division... Andy

I cannot really remember any reason for a specific detention. I do remember getting in the shit with Alan Tayler and almost certainly got a detention for it: were were reading parts from Julius Ceasar in class and my role required me to expostulate "Ceasar--My Lord!". Up until this point I think poor Tayler was silently congratulating himself on running an orderly class. I rendered my lines in a lascvious tone worthy of Benny Hill at his slimiest, leered in the direction of one of the girls, licked my lips and said "Seize her My Lord" at ahich point the class broke-up laughing and poor old AJT nearly popped a blood vessel. I was in deep do-do for that one...

Andy

Keep up the quality!

Duncan

"Never mind the quality--just feel the width!"  Allright--I led with the chin on that one...

Andy

The thing I remember most about Andy Williams was when you were cheeky or whatever he would grab hold of a handful of fat from your waistline and march you around the gym at top speed - bloody-hell that hurt!!

Penny

is this a lifestyle thing? - being interested in punishments I mean.  I don't recall you wearing a overtly 'strict' or leather - based costume at the re-union!!

Phil,

Your right it may be a lifestyle thing as the half century starts to loom nearer and nearer!

However I thought I did a good job on 'volunteering' you to administer the back bit of the car parking at the reunion and you didn't protest!  As for my interest in all things leather well ..........

Who was the male Biology teacher who also helped Andy Williams out with Rugby? I remember he had a fair old temper on him (or did we drive him to it?).  I recall one day in the biology lab Ian MacDonald was whispering to someone and this teacher literally leapt from the front as if he was a man possessed and ran down to where Ian was sitting and hauled him out of his seat by the back of his blazer and literally threw him and then stood over him shouting and hollering as we all watched on in some silent horror waiting to see what he would do next.

Fortunately for Ian, I think the teacher realised he had overstepped the mark and backed off and went back to resume the lesson while we all sat there bloody petrified!

Pennie Alford 67-72

I got hauled out of assembly in front of everyone, how eagle eyed Clara spotted me I will never know, but it was the " Lesley Fosbury wait outside my office" as she swooped off the stage her black wings wafting after her.  Now, when I got to see her she looked me up and down in her own "hmm now what’s dogs bottom did you fall out of???" way.. and said "you strumpet, you tart how dare you behave like that" I just sort of stood there.. I did not have a clue what she was on about.. So then I got the "what have you got to say for yourself Girl?" Again - stunned silence, I really did not know what I had done, so she said she would spell it out for me..." the way I was dressed was immoral, I was a disgrace to the school, I was a whore a harlot and a strumpet, and she wanted to see my Mother at the school to see what she had to say for herself, letting her daughter dress that way.

Well of course that little speech made it all the clearer.  So I went home with the letter for my mum, and she went up the school to find out just what I had done. And then it became as clear as mud..... In the mid 70's it was all the rage to sew motifs to your clothes... jackets, shirts anything.  My sister has sewed two very small strawberries to the collar of my blouse.. and it was these that caused the problem.. You see I was being fruity.

I can remember the crime, but not the punishment.

At least, I can't remember the official punishment, but I can remember being smacked and grounded at home for ages, after Clara called my parents to the school.

The crime was bunking off Geography and getting found necking with Dave Holmes in the cloakroom!  - where are you now Dave??

Don't know you but both being ex-Downer I am allowed to butt in here.

Steve Ossack (63-69) reminded me that I was a bit "lippy" at school - I wasn't really just a staunch supported of women's rights and freedom of expression so I suppose Mr. Reed thought that giving me a detention for getting 3 in one day (making 4 - he was maths teacher!) was justified.

The only teachers who understood me were Pauline Ibbotson and June Brock poor Mike Beaman just used to get exasperated with me (French & Spanish teacher - I am now fluent in both!)

Actually I do believe that Wendy Plastock and I thought that all the "cool" boys seemed to get detentions so it was a good opportunity to walk down to the bus stop all together afterwards.

The reunion just taught me that there were also some really great boys around who had no interest in detentions nor playing about.  Keith Lovegrove's son recently comented that Keith probably had no social life if he was studying hard for his A levels.... some things just don't changed.