When did Downer Grammar change over to Canons Comprehensive?  The 'comprehensives' used to call us 'Grammar grubs' - how things have changed.

I left Downer in 1972 and I remember it was due to happen within the next couple of years so it maybe that it was 1974.  Hopefully one of those who hung on in till the end of the 74 will be able to confirm.

I distinctly remember having a conversation with Clara (Miss Caldwell) the headmistress when I was leaving that she was totally horrified by the thought that Downer was going to combine with the dreaded secondary school down Camrose Avenue.

As a point of interest I know that Clara actually left and went off and set up her own private school.  I met her once on Finchley Road tube station which I think was as much of a shock for me as it was for her!

Yes - it was September 1974.  I believe the old Camrose Secondary School became the middle school (11-13yrs) with Mr Bigger (metalwork) as the Head and the Downer site becoming the upper school (14-16).  There was no sixth form, hence John Lawson's comment about his years' truncated time at Downer.

Downer became comprehensive in September 1973 when Camrose Secondary Modern moved in to our school!! I think many of us who were there at the time could hardly believe what was happening to us....

There seemed to be thousands of people in the school suddenly and the atmosphere of  Downer seemed to change overnight.

I clearly remember the hall curtains being set alight and a boy from Camrose standing on the piano in the old music room and smashing the clock.  I also remember Mr. Becker being punched by someone after an assembly quite soon after the changeover.  Things were somehow never the same!!!  Gill Winstanley

Apologies - it was September 1974 that Downer became comprehensive.

This mention of Becker getting punched nudged an old memory of something that happened once in his study.  I'd been sent to see him for some reason and he was really furious with me.  It was no doubt my attitude, but he was losing it.

"I can have you, Wiggins," he said. "Remember that.  I can still beat you.  Maybe not in a year's time when you're out of this school, but I'm bigger and stronger than you right now."

And I distinctly remember thinking, "I hope you try, you bastard, because I don't think you can. And if you hit me I'm going to hit you back.  Who knows, you might be able to beat me, but it'll be fun finding out.  Either way you're office is going to get wrecked and I know you'll come out of it marked up.  And then where will you be?  You'll have some explaining to do, won't you?"

I didn't say it, because at 15 I wasn't confident enough of finding the right words, but I remember thinking it and enjoying the scenario as well.  I just stared at him.

Looking back, I'm sure I was being an arsehole and probably deserved to get whacked.  But he wasn't going to be the man to do it.

Jeff - just noticed that you were at Downer the same years as me (1955-61) but I don't recognize your name.  I went through school in 1C, 2C, 3L2, 4L2 and 5L2 and was more interested in sports than academics.  I think the boys games master was Mr. McGillivray?

Some old included Gary Brennan, Meryl Welch, Lesley Robertson, Russ Bevington, Carol Burford and her younger sister Heather Burford.  Any of these names ring a bell?

Nick Hall

hi
i actually went to Belmont and that became Mountview High.  What a ponsie name.  We joined with Whitefriars.  It doesn't get much worse. My cousin Gary O'Brien went to Downer between 69-75 after leaving Weald Middle which was originally Robin Hood.

Nick - I remember you, let's see if I'm right.  Mr Wilson the music master invited pupils who played an instrument to play infront of the class and you played the flute and everyone was amazed how well you played, more than amateur standard.  In which case if you look in Photo Album 'Snapshots 1961' (now defunct) you will find a photo of the very blackboard in front of which you stood to play.

See 'D of E Award Winners' photo (accessible under 'History') and perhaps you'll remember me and some others.

You must have kept your School Report to know your forms, my mum kept mine so I can see we shared 1C and 2C, then I was 3S2, 4S2, 5S2 and 6.  I think S = Science, what was L?  I thought the other group was Arts.

Mr. McGillivray? - another correspondent Wendi Lynch (was Gray) thought it was Peter Crouch.  I'm not sure either way but have a faint recollection that McGillivray preceded Crouch.

Now you have jogged my memory, I do remember them.  Downer seems to have had more than its fair share of pretty girls.  You weren't the only one with a crush on the dark-eyed Lesley Robertson.

Jeff Lewis

Jeff:

I guess I have forgotten more than I realized because I don't remember the flute playing episode but you're probably right because at that time I was a member of the Church Lad's Brigade and played the flute in their fife and bugle band.

With reference to the "S" and "L" class designations, after 1C and 2C the school was split into "Science" or "Language" streams so that while you were studying Biology, Physics and Chemistry in 3S2,4S2 and 5S2 I was studying Latin, Spanish and French in 3L2,4L2 and 5L2.

I'm not surprised to find out after all of these years that I wasn't the only lad with a crush on Lesley Robertson - she was just the first of many of the fairer sex to break my heart when she moved after the second term to Scotland.

Nick Hall

Downer became comprehensive (forced to by one Margaret Thatcher, Secretary of State for Education & Science) and thus Canons High School, in, I think, 1974, when I entered the Upper 6th.  It was dreadful!  Some of the best masters/mistresses went off to other schools or to the new 6th form colleges - there was thus no Lower 6th when I was in the Upper.  The folk from the 'other school' seemed to have no sense of discipline or the slightest grasp of the ethos of a school as a community.  I remember stopping someone one lunch time and trying to give a 'preface', and having to run for my life!  My 'O' levels certificate says 'Downer' but my 'A' levels one says 'Canon High' - although I never regard myself as a Canons person.

Keith
I remember that year extremely well.  We had no Lower 6th to help out with the various "duties" that we performed and I also remember the change of the school attitude and the exodus of many of the staff.  However, I also remember that the relationship between us and the staff that stayed on (some of them just for the year, to help us through A'Levels) became very close for which I am very grateful.  I think that there was a feeling of camaraderie between the 6th form and staff that probably would not have been so strong had the situation been "more normal".

They were indeed some scary people who joined the new combined school but there were also some good ones too.  It certainly was an eye opener, which although a "living hell" did have some upsides.  I admit the positives were hard to see at the time and they are still not that easy to remember but I'm sure there were a few!
All the best.
Jonathan Halling

Grief! - I've never wished I was older than I am but I'm glad I'd left before all that lot happened.  I'd never have survived it.  I was there 1955-1962.  Fancy Clara going off and starting a new school!  Can't say I blame her though.

I was in the final entrance year of grammar school students in 1972.  I recall we were the youngest members of school for two years.  My overriding memories after the school became comprehensive was confusion and chaos.  The new uniform was phased in over a year or two and so factions of Downer and Camrose students would roam around the grounds wary of each other and spoiling for fights.  Some of our lessons had to be taken at Camrose and there was much wandereing to and fro between the sites.  Order and discipline vanished as a much more relaxed and accomodating attitude was adopted to deal with the Camrose pupils.

I was at Camrose County Secondary Modern School from 1958-1963.  We only had one general science classroom in the main school and one Biology lab in a temporary classroom.  As a result a number of us (5/6 in total I think) walked up the hill to Downer at least 3 times a week to be taught physics with chemistry during our 4th and 5th years at Camrose. I remember that the chemistry teacher at the time was a Mr Barnet.  The facilities at Downer were exceptional including a lecture theatre where we were taught.  The difference in facilities was considerable.  I gained entry into the 6th form of Downer which I attended from 1963-65.  I was a prefect at both schools and also represented both schools at a number of sports including playing on the sixth board of the Downer chess team.  It is a pity that a number of the previous contributions to this discussion dwell on the negative aspects of students from Camrose.  It is also a pity that Camrose also lost its identity in the merger of the two schools!

Brian Catt Camrose 1958-1963 Downer 1961-1965.

In response to Brian Catt.

Well done Sir.

I'm an ex Camrose boy who ended up through the system and at Canons.  Yes it did lower the standards for a lot of Downer pupils but the good it did to a number of Camrose puils.

At Camrose we were just being processed through a system, Canons certainly did me good.

If the spelling or grammar is bad remember, ex-Camrose!!

Alex

Thanks Alex for thank - very healthy I feel to have an opposing perspective.

It's nice to know that there was good came out of the integration. 

Perhaps, fellow pupils on this board who emanated from Downer have been too involved in the negative aspects to see the good that came.

Bob